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satcomer

macrumors 604
Feb 19, 2008
7,857
1,443
The Finger Lakes Region
All I know is Apple as such a big company other startups are poaching big techs to run their company for more money than your making now! Besides I know for some reason Tim (picked from Compac on downslide) seems to hate the old NEXT techs that Steve loved!
 

cmaier

macrumors Penryn
Jul 25, 2007
24,853
32,210
California
Not just a lead designer but many M1 developers and engineers left Apple to other companies such as MS and Intel. According to Bloomberg, Apple tried to prevent engineers to defections by giving stocks but they rejected Apple's offer.

Not just few but many of them left and is it a concerning issue for Apple?

1) the bonuses were not for the cpu team
2) people switch jobs all the time in the cpu design area. For every person who leaves apple to go someplace else, 1.25 join apple from someplace else.
3) “lead designer” isn’t a thing. He was an architect. They have lots of architects.
4) at AMD, we once had almost the entire design team quit. We were left with 15 people on the california cpu design team. The result: we invented AMD64 (now called x86-64) and created Opteron/Athlon 64, which saved the company and forced Intel to copy *us* for a change. The point: quality, not quantity, is what matters.
 

SpecMode

macrumors regular
Jun 27, 2007
201
345
NorCal
On the flip side, Apple also poaches quite a bit from other companies. In addition, there are also quite a few "boomerangs" who return.

Churn in the tech industry is not a new phenomenon.
Definitely not unique to CPU engineers. I work for the networking division of an enterprise tech company and the majority of the folks I work with have, at one point or another, worked for at least one of our major competitors. It is not at all uncommon to see someone leave the company for one of those competitors only to return months or years later — it's a revolving door.
 

MayaUser

macrumors regular
Nov 22, 2021
149
231
Not just a lead designer but many M1 developers and engineers left Apple to other companies such as MS and Intel. According to Bloomberg, Apple tried to prevent engineers to defections by giving stocks but they rejected Apple's offer.

Not just few but many of them left and is it a concerning issue for Apple?
If Johny Srouji is not leaving you dont have to worry about..where this guy goes, the SoC is taking a huge leap forward
 

Mcckoe

macrumors regular
Jan 15, 2013
110
297
The Roadmap at apple is pretty defined at the moment, not a lot of room for innovation for a while. If your working in partnership with someone or a company that is far into development, who offers you a job you can’t refuse, do you take it?
 

MysticCow

macrumors 65816
May 27, 2013
1,162
773
You agree to a job in exchange for pay and benefits.

You do not agree to a job to sell your soul to a company and let them run you over.

Only one of those sentences is correct for any job-related situation. Which one is it? I don't know.
 

crazy dave

macrumors 6502a
Sep 9, 2010
982
726
If you were to just look at people leaving Intel you’d be even more concerned. Factor those who have been new hired or come back and it’s probably just substantial churn. As others here have said, you have to factor comings and goings which have recently increased everywhere. Why now?

Google, Amazon, Microsoft, a whole lot of others are expanding their server/CPU efforts. AMD after having bootstrapped themselves into being a successful company are looking to continue that success. Intel is trying to regain technical leadership as quickly as possible. And Apple has just just redesigned their entire Mac computing platform. So depending on what excites you after your current project is up at wherever you are working now (or in Intel’s case are sick of retirement), what stage of development you want to work on, and yes the compensation and quality of life package you are offered, right now there are a lot of options.
 

crazy dave

macrumors 6502a
Sep 9, 2010
982
726
M1 can't scale to desktop / workstation / sever levels?

No. In fact quite the opposite. But even if true, that also wouldn’t be a reason for churn, in fact for some of these people working on difficult to solve, or at least novel, problems is why they work where they do.
 

rocketpig

macrumors newbie
Jan 25, 2006
16
18
Why are engineers leaving Apple?

Because the easiest way to catch up in the tech sector is to poach key employees from the industry leader.

Microsoft and other companies looking to catch up in ARM development can and will overpay massive sums to catch up and enter the market more quickly. Apple is already entrenched in the market and has little reason to go to such drastic measures to keep their employees.
 

Richu

macrumors newbie
Apr 23, 2021
5
21
Not just a lead designer but many M1 developers and engineers left Apple to other companies such as MS and Intel. According to Bloomberg, Apple tried to prevent engineers to defections by giving stocks but they rejected Apple's offer.

Not just few but many of them left and is it a concerning issue for Apple?
This tells us nothing. You need get stats on whether the average employment time has gone down compared to historic metrics and competitors metrics.

The articles you see here are just clickbait / easy articles to write to keep you refreshing macrumors. They intentionally don’t put anything in context to make it sensational.

A company of Apple’s magnitude has an absurd amount of employees, people leave everyday. It’s the standard in an engineering career to switch jobs quite a few times to change the scenery, improve your position (vastly higher chance of opening if you’re open to more than your current employer) or get leverage on a valuable experience.
 

Freeangel1

macrumors 6502a
Jan 13, 2020
861
1,235
I agree. As Apple silicon shrinks in size, it may be power efficient but no match for what both AMD and Intel are doing on the desktop, server and even laptops even if they draw more power. And they still have room to SHRINK.

AMD is down to 6nm chips with the 6000 series. It even has the Microsoft security chip built inside. Like Apple T2.
 

cmaier

macrumors Penryn
Jul 25, 2007
24,853
32,210
California
I agree. As Apple silicon shrinks in size, it may be power efficient but no match for what both AMD and Intel are doing on the desktop, server and even laptops even if they draw more power. And they still have room to SHRINK.

AMD is down to 6nm chips with the 6000 series. It even has the Microsoft security chip built inside. Like Apple T2.

This is funny.
 

CWallace

macrumors G3
Aug 17, 2007
9,505
6,364
Seattle, WA
Apple has over $200 billion in cash. If these people were critical to the long-term health of Apple Silicon (be it on the Mac, the iPhone, the Apple Watch, or whathaveyou) they could literally bribe them to stay with a cash signing bonus.

This is NOT to say that these people are unimportant or that their loss will be unfelt by Apple. But it appears that Apple's bench is deep enough that their loss, while felt and perhaps even felt deeply, is not going to seriously impact said health over the long-term so Apple is not going to do "whatever it takes" to keep them.

It's also possible that some of the most-prominent people moving on have expertise in certain areas of design that makes them valuable for a certain portion of a chip's development cycle and then once that is done, they move on. So they are effectively "hired guns" to solve specific issues and once they did their magic at Apple, they move on and do their magic somewhere else.
 
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